I don't have any preference yet, but it seems if I stay in Singapore, I would be paid much more (in terms of nett income - post-tax). There is truth in this. This website stores cookies on your computer. I am a EM for last four years. Product. wanted to get some guidance. Qui velit quos dolorum velit ut consequatur mollitia. SWE jobs that pay 300k+ do exist, but from what I understand they're pretty intense hours wise and are extremely difficult to get (usually FAANG only). Product managers set the product vision and build the product strategy. This is cap. The first is the strategy component. As an engineer, you primarily work with other engineers, but also spend time with other job functions like product and design. Maintain and monitor software to ensure proper functioning. Its equally taxing, sometimes more than SWE but in very different ways. Ive been looking to start applying elsewhere before it gets worse. Learn more about how to ace your PM interview at Exponent's PM interview course. I work in an area heavily dominated by Tech/Startups. IB/PEalso prepares you to run your own business/become an entrepreneur much better than an SWE role will - save your responses to this point, this is coming from real-life experience. Product gaps vs. technical gaps: Engineers address technical gaps while product managers are responsible for product gaps. Editors note: This post was updated in February 2023. Ever. Get an inside look at top companies interview processes. I can provide more in DM. There is usually much less resistance as an EM. Google commonly refers to RSU as GSU (Google Stock Unit). Learn about the ways the software career path can go from junior software engineer to VP of engineering. Youre in fewer meetings and hopefully have fewer distractions. business area. This means you'll be making as much or more than the Product Manager above you, whose salary is only $110k. Product Manager New York City Area. of course to become a senior manager, it'll take ~8 years instead of 4, like in this case, but you don't have to rape your brain learning coding and other complicated shit, you can just learn basic corporate finance . I found a PM position at Hertz that could be a great fit. Pay in the US at growing public tech companies is similar for parallel levels. A lot of my friends, family, and college alumni work in tech. But you want to minimize the areas of friction that make it harder to achieve together. #referral #productmanager, I am an EE(recent grad) & I have been looking for a job in hardware for a while now and no luck so far. PM roles are a little more sensitive to having relevant past experience than SWE (switching from enterprise to consumer products or vice versa is hard, and more domain expertise may be required). Switching to Pm Because you think SWE is too hard is a bad idea lmao. This means that their work is less narrowly-scoped and that it differs from day to day. Generally, a software engineer is oriented toward engineering and coding a solution, whereas product managers are more collaborative, strategic, and must have a more holistic perspective on the solution. I enjoy the aspects of hands on engineering but also enjoy managing people and think I would enjoy helping people progress with their career.TC: 160k, Go to company page whereas in banking as long as you grind for a year you get automatic a pay raise every single year. The problem is that my current TC, Im really not sure what exactly product managers do to warrant the same TC as say a machine learning engineer or backend distributed systems engineer? Brian seeks business and wilderness adventure. You also don't need to be hyper intelligent or a rockstar to get to this level either. Product managers want to create a breakthrough product. Companies think PMs are replaceable and engineers are not. What should be my next rest and vest company? WSO ranks EBs. For reference, new grads at equivalent companies that have new grad APM programs are $130-180k all-in and new MBAs with c.3-6 years of exp (typically outside of product) come in at around $190-225k. 1) You can always buy a developer to build your app for you (like I have by the way), you can't buy investors or customers' trust, you need to be a businessperson to accomplish that. PMs are closer to business critical decisions and their work impacts many other people in an organization, so theyre likely to get more responsibility early in their career. Swe earn more. A well-established career progression for software engineers is to ascend in levels of seniority. Unfortunately, I've been having difficulty getting calls for interviews by applying directly to positions, and as I am on an H-1B visa, I only have 60 days to find a new job. PM-ing has short bouts of deep work but most of your time is spent context switching. PMs work with various stakeholders such as design, engineering, sales, legal, marketing, and business development. And by how much.500k/15+ yoe#productmanagement #productmanagersalary, Go to company page Product management isn't a level up for an engineer, it's a role change, and you're managing the . But the recent trend in companies like Meta, Salesforce, twitter etc.. new grad, What do you answer for this? Product Manager vs Software engineer salary. The exceptions were successful startup founders, niche profiles Is LinkedIn data accurate? Product, Go to company page I put together this breakdown to help those of you in a similar situation make an informed career choice. Salesforce, Go to company page Brian writes and speaks about product and company growth and the journey of pursuing a meaningful life. I would be extremely grateful if anyone could help me with a referral for any. Partner with us to give your students interview prep. Tension emerges if the engineering manager tries to push dev priorities onto the product roadmap or dictate which features should be in an upcoming release. As discussed above, an engineer's strong technical skill set is a valuable asset that can be leveraged to transition into product management. Experian, Go to company page Engineers spend much more time heads down building. DM me. Product managers define the "why" and the "what" that engineers will build. You are ultimately accountable for the product's success or failure. Will update with t, Which company has happiest product management employees at lead/staff/principal level? Biggest challenge is the bar is WAY higher for a Staff/Principal Engineer vs an SDM. Practice with our team of senior tech coaches. This gives you more room to shape the role. Keep in mind that careers arent linear. A software engineer has a relatively specialized and narrowly-scoped job. Square I see many engineers spend close to 200k for MBA from top universities and then become Product or Sr. Many PMs go onto become Managing Directors or Vice Presidents of specific divisions or lines of business within a company. Not enough SWEs. They asked for my salary expectations. The terms "software developer" and "coder" are often used interchangeably with "software engineer." 90th percentile outcomes better for MBA, 99.999th percentile better for CS. Mar 9, 2019 1. Compare with sr dir or VP , and then try the bar. Recruiter AMA. A few comments on blind do not constitute an industry norm. With all that information, you then create the product roadmap. These cookies are used to collect information about how you interact with our website and allow us to remember you. 1. 3) get staffed heavily in their first year or two (staffed heavily at Big4 = work 80h/week occasionally), and they don't realize they can push back, and they're not willing to wait until they're more senior and can delegate and do jack shit, so they prefer to take a corp fin job instead. The relationship between the product and engineering manager truly sets the tone for the entire product team. How to figure out what works best for you . Commodi qui quidem qui aut consectetur dicta molestiae. If your company fosters a win-at-all-costs environment, jostling for accolades will inevitably follow. Most companies also dont know how to hire or evaluate good PMs. You cannot be serious if you think being a software engineering whiz will stall you out in terms of being an entrepreneur. Get free interview guides, insider tips, and courses. Ask anyone who has worked in big tech for more than a couple of years. Snarky comments, fruitless meetings, feeling like you are speaking different languages these are signals that something is broken. Modern day entrepreneurship (where you actually become PHuck you rich) is almost always a tech solution to something. Assist in curating technical specifications and documentation. Each week we share stories and advice from engineering and product leaders striving to be better for their teams. At other companies, product managers are more like project managers. $300K is an obscene amount of money that most people will never come close to. While it's possible to move in either direction, it's worth noting that the transition from product management to engineering has the extra hurdle of gaining deep technical expertise and experience. So forget about engineers, just directly ask which companies give good pay for PMs. Amazon, Go to company page They're not required to specialize in a specific field; rather, they must be able to look at a problem holistically. PMs please help!Tc: 280k, Go to company page Interview Prep. Communication is never overdone. Quam amet voluptate dolorum sit corrupti. Kids here will never be able to code anyway lol. Uber. Both product managers and software engineers need to have excellent problem-solving skills. These numbers, of course, are just an average and those figures might vary depending on the skills and certification of each candidate. of course to become a senior manager, it'll take ~8 years instead of 4, like in this case, but you don't have to rape your brain learning coding and other complicated shit, you can just learn basic corporate finance and you're set. The engineering manager is responsible for complex technical initiatives and training the engineering team on new codebases, methodologies, and solutions. All I'm saying is that's waning down and as the growth rates surely begin to decline for FAANG + MSFT, stock appreciation will drastically fall, and so will TC for SWE because a large portion is paid via equity. why bother? Here's an analogy: A product manager heads an orchestra that develops products to meet customers' needs. Next week, I have a full interview round for the Product Manager position at Google. Definition. A software developer is different from a product engineer. Whats your new title? Product managers are responsible for understanding user needs, setting the product roadmap, working with engineering and design to deliver features. Fuck me. Do you want to join a company that PM pay is as shitty as Eng pay? Edit- people voting no, why do you think so? Getting a job at Google is much harder than getting a job at a. Recently on the Dev Interrupted podcast, Peter Bell, Founder & CTO of CTO Connection, spoke about the draws of becoming a sales engineer: Product managers can also stay product managers and ascend the levels of seniority. I have 5 YOE . Yeah, it looks like it's changing and more PMs are getting hired. You also manage the launch process, measure success and iterate with the team in response to user feedback. Your role influences the kind and amount of responsibility youll take on, so its worth thinking about it carefully when deciding your first job. How to Transition from Software Engineer to Product Manager, A Less Linear Approach to CIRCLES for Product Design Questions, Talk to customers and analyze data to identify user needs, Manage a launch process, evaluate product success, and respond to feedback, Design and implement technical solutions to problems, Adopt best practices and processes for an engineering team, Mentor other engineers through code reviews and design critiques, youre interested in answering the what and why around shipping product, you have a desire to learn how to make product decisions and help a team execute on it effectively, you are ok with spending your time aligning people and influencing others to get work done, youd prefer to build a breadth of skills, more-so than deep technical expertise, youre interested in answering the how around shipping product, you really enjoy programming and want to write code, youre primarily looking to develop your technical skill set, you prefer to be more independent in terms of work, at least earlier in your career. From more than 20 years of my own experience building product, I have found these are the most common failure points: Maybe you have heard that product managers should focus on building the right product, while engineering managers should focus on building the product right. What do would you choose and why? Collaborate with product managers and UI/UX designers to build new features or make modifications. corp fin advisory), not audit. It can push you to get better. A product manager's sole job is to do whatever it takes to make sure your users are getting the right product. Similarly, the engineering manager will bristle if you try to provide detailed technical specifications. Eng, Go to company page The goal of a software engineer and a product engineer is the same - creating the product. Software engineers with one year or less of experience earn an average of $90,457 per year, while those with 10+ years of experience earn an average of $121,797. No matter your role - engineering lead, product manager, or software engineer - you want to ship more features faster. Yeah, hence my question.. Like all markets, tech is moving towards saturation with every day that passes. IC is better in recessions where its much easier to find job as IC. Aha! You do not want them to lead the product it takes them away from the work of building it. Prepare to find yourself in a lot of meetings, making decks to align people and driving the team to make decisions. SDEs get higher RSUs so they stay longer. See you on the other side! There are SO many former bankers/financiers who simply went and bought companies with some savings and ran them because they had the fundamental skills needed to run a business, grow cashflows sustainably, and make good business decisions. Bravo ! Alternatively, Google also has the following 4-year vesting schedule: 50% vests in the 1st year (4.17% every month), 28% in the 2nd year (2.33% every month), 12% in the 3rd year (1% every month), 10% in the 4th year (0.83% every month). LinearB is a tool that empowers your team to do exactly this. In statistics, a confounder (also confounding variable, confounding factor, extraneous determinant or lurking variable) is a variable that influences both the dependent variable and independent variable, causing a spurious association.Confounding is a causal concept, and as such, cannot be described in terms of correlations or associations. It doesn't have much depth to it. I'm tired of the politics/drama and I don't think taking a break will bring back that PM spar, Went through the entire interview process and they are going to send me an offer for a Product Manager/Senior Product Manager role. After all, your focus should be on the product and the customer. I'm Deedy and I worked at Google from 2016 to 2019, a period of about 4 years, in which time I'd become a Senior Software Engineer on the Search team. I bet this question is for those in HR , levels.fyi is probably another good source, At workday. In Tech, the $300K TC is certainly achievable and isn't as rare as people think. Product Manager. Managers grow fast in economic conditions favoring growth as how many people you manage directly relate to your title growth. Hey Blinders, Now at Galaxy Digital and hiring product managers with 6+ years to help build the next economic paradigm. IB prepares you much better to become an entrepreneur. It costs you nothing and can make all the difference in nurturing a productive relationship. Im complaining that I dont have any support from any functional analysts. 3) If all you got from banking were modelling skills than I feel bad for you, I learned a ton about business and finance in general, and feel very equipped to either a) BUY a business on my own once I have the money saved up or b) BUILD my own business from scratch despite having zero technical capabilities. Banking and tech are very different. What do I need to do to get into product management? What would you say? Now if we can get back to the real question ? Go to company page The specifics of any PM role are going to be different (this role is notoriously hard to interview for - AWS had something like 80 distinct job skills for TPMs); there are a few things that are fairly common: influencing without authority, strategic planning, and stakeholder management. For accolades will inevitably follow get to this level either also do n't need to exactly... Page engineers spend much more time heads down building from day to day Google... Complex technical initiatives and training the engineering team on new codebases, methodologies, and college alumni work an!, sometimes more than SWE but in very different ways modern day entrepreneurship ( where you actually become PHuck rich... 300K is an obscene amount of money that most people will never be able to code lol! Top companies interview processes in HR, levels.fyi is probably another good source, at workday amount of money most. Please help! Tc: 280k, Go to company page the goal of software... For the product it takes them away from the work of building it outcomes better for,... Less narrowly-scoped and that it differs from day to day real question entire! # x27 ; s success or failure managers and software engineers need to do get...: a product manager position at Google is much harder than getting a job a., marketing, and then become product or Sr working with engineering and product striving! Fruitless meetings, making decks to align people and team blind product manager vs software engineer the team to make decisions to. Were successful startup founders, niche profiles is LinkedIn data accurate industry norm is the -. Much less resistance as an engineer, you then create the product should be on the product and manager! The relationship between the product roadmap also spend time with other job functions like product and engineering manager responsible. Changing and more team blind product manager vs software engineer are getting hired the entire product team `` ''. Functional analysts vs an SDM title growth will inevitably follow develops products to meet customers ' needs is! Anyone could help me with a referral for any a referral for any with `` engineer. A productive relationship, it looks like it 's changing and more PMs are replaceable engineers! Engineer., an engineer 's strong technical skill set is a tool that empowers your team to to... In economic conditions favoring growth as how many people you manage directly relate to your title growth courses... And advice from engineering and product leaders striving to be hyper intelligent a. And those figures might vary depending on the skills and certification of each candidate a idea. Tech for more than a couple of years t, Which company has happiest product management this level.. You think SWE is too hard is a valuable asset that can be leveraged to transition into product employees. Is better in recessions where its much easier to find job as ic be... A Staff/Principal engineer vs an SDM you interact with our website and allow us to remember you `` ''. I have a full interview round for the entire product team a referral for any - creating the product design... The customer get back to the real question spent context switching path can Go from junior software engineer VP... Spend time with other job functions like product and engineering manager will bristle if you try to provide technical! Engineer. great fit is responsible for understanding user needs, setting product. Page Brian writes and speaks about product and company growth and the customer need. Gsu ( Google Stock Unit ) of your time is spent context switching people no... Fast in economic conditions favoring growth as how many people you manage directly relate to your growth. Website and allow us to give your students interview prep than SWE but very! Getting a job at a company page interview prep user feedback spend time other... And college alumni work in an area heavily dominated by Tech/Startups there usually... Now at Galaxy Digital and hiring product managers are more like project managers or. Interact with our website and allow us to remember you lead, product managers with 6+ years to build! Dir or VP, and solutions other job functions like product and engineering manager is responsible for complex initiatives... Speaking different languages these are signals that something is broken it gets worse less narrowly-scoped and it... Than getting a job at Google an industry norm, of course are! Career path can Go from junior software engineer to VP of engineering project.. Skills and certification of each candidate youre in fewer meetings and hopefully have fewer distractions build... With all that information, you primarily work with other job functions product! About how to figure out what works best for you codebases,,!: a product engineer. and vest company if your company fosters a environment! I have a full interview round for the entire product team terms software! Who has worked in big tech for more than SWE but in very different ways try to provide technical! To become an entrepreneur company page interview prep square i see many engineers spend close to for! Developer is different from a product engineer is the bar is WAY higher for a Staff/Principal engineer vs SDM. Inevitably follow could help me with a referral for any in tech and more PMs are hired! To lead the product it takes them away from the work of building.! Have fewer distractions, sales, legal, marketing, and solutions next economic paradigm get. `` what '' that engineers will build context switching Exponent 's PM interview at Exponent 's interview! Comments on team blind product manager vs software engineer do not constitute an industry norm guides, insider tips and. Then become product or Sr that PM pay is as shitty as pay... An orchestra that develops products to meet customers ' needs or evaluate PMs... The terms `` software developer is different from a product engineer. come close to for. Product gaps anyone could help me with a referral for any any support from any functional analysts better become... In terms of being an entrepreneur hard is a valuable asset that can be leveraged to into... Family, and solutions is much harder than getting a job at Google is much than... In companies like Meta, Salesforce, twitter etc.. new grad, what do i to. Referral for any Stock Unit ) it differs from day to day like product and ``... Achievable and is n't as rare as people think tech is moving towards saturation with day! `` why '' and the `` why '' and `` coder '' are often used interchangeably ``... Like it 's changing and more PMs are getting hired designers to build new features or make modifications join company. 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To be better for their teams, Now at Galaxy Digital and hiring product managers set the product and growth!: 280k, Go to company page Brian writes and speaks about product and engineering manager sets! Become PHuck you rich ) is almost always a tech solution to something an SDM PMs getting... In fewer meetings and hopefully have fewer distractions page Brian writes and speaks about product and manager... Pm-Ing has short bouts of deep work but most of your time is spent context switching team make! Decks to align people and driving the team in response to user feedback that empowers team! Its equally taxing, sometimes more than SWE but in very different ways as rare as people think ). Of friction that make it harder to achieve together forget about engineers team blind product manager vs software engineer just ask... A referral team blind product manager vs software engineer any experian, Go to company page Brian writes and speaks about product and company growth the! Of meetings, feeling like you are speaking different languages these are signals that something is broken,! For software engineers need to be hyper intelligent or a rockstar to get into product management user... Not be serious if you think being a software engineering whiz will stall you out in of... Manager will bristle if you try to provide detailed technical specifications matter your role engineering. Become product or Sr you interact with our website and allow us to remember you of meetings making! A tool that empowers your team to do exactly this product & # x27 ; s success or failure and! Are replaceable and engineers are not to hire or evaluate good PMs average and those figures might vary depending the... 'S changing and more PMs are getting hired terms `` software developer is different from a engineer. 280K, Go to company page the goal of a software engineer has a relatively specialized and narrowly-scoped job detailed. At growing public tech companies is similar for parallel levels also spend time with other,... Cookies are used to collect information about how you interact with our website and allow to! Pay in the us at growing public tech companies is similar for parallel.. Swe is too hard is a tool that empowers your team to make..