All I wish is that they would figure out a way to distinguish between a lie and an honest omission. Here in Italy Superman still dictates. This is nothing but government bureaucracy. Im a depressed individual Ive been formally diagnosed with dysthemic disorder, a long-term, low grade version of chronic depression that isnt helped with medications. There are hardly any crashes or incidents related to pilot incapacitation and if there were the FAA or NTSB would have expressed grave concerns. If the FAA is lieing why should we worry about non-commercial pilots? I would respect them more if they screened for problems and helped people cure them, rather than go over the hill with a knee jerk reaction. Medical certificates are designated as first-class, second-class, or third-class. My question is what are they doing in order to get caught. Actually, in some years there are 0 attributed to sudden incapacitation, such as heart attack or stroke. A wise man once said to me that the more you tell them the more you with have to sit through. A pilot might reason, for example, that the antidepressant he's taken for months hasn't caused any side effects and actually makes him more mentally fit to fly, a safer pilot. You would be surprised how many complaints FSDOs receive for folks reporting their family members. You get caught lying on a medical, they'll do a lot more than just bust your balls. Because the measures necessary to achieve it would make life intolerable dull and stifling. No. The guy who is lying about hypertension is making a huge mistake. Ive been prescribed them, but have stopped taking them simply due to the fact that they are useless and I see no point in continuing to pour money down the drain for nothing. Ive been fighting to get my 3rd class for 10 years and now I think Im close to getting a special issuance. Some other government agency gets told another. If you did go fly one, it would be a violation of the Sport Pilot rule on self certification. 45,000 Northern California pilots with current medical certificates Wow - are there really 45,000 pilots with current medicals in just Northern California? Have you ever been dizzy etc. Yea if you got deep pockets to afford the tests you Probably dont need. I do believe all of the ideas youve presented for your post. I stopped learning to fly as I did not have the additional funds to have the CAA medical. If you have a medical issue, may god be with you as you try to figure out exactly what you have to do (e.g. Meanwhile the FAA now sits on thier collective thumbs deciding what to do. Im not saying I have a medical cert, but if I did this is what I would do. I am working on my private pilot license and I was honest and admitted to an episode of seasonal depression treated with medication (which I no longer require or take). Should I expect the FAA to understand my circumstance if theyre going to pull a pilots ticket for marital counseling? XYZZY62, Check the AME Guide posted at faa.gov to determine what the FAA requires for your seasonal depression. The problem is cured now; they should be concerned when the problem exists not after the fact. I have read articles online about pilots who get caught falsifying their medical. John has been quoted or mentioned in major publications, including Chron, Flying Mag, and National Review. Pilot organizations offer free advice to members, commercial outfits offer advice and assistance for a fee and printed resources are available. I did years later and got totally cleared. 'I get many calls from pilots who ask how to deal with a situation where a misrepresentation was made in the past'most often on a medical certificate application'which is now coming back to haunt them,' says attorney Charles M. Finkel. It is also very much a question of freedom. Youre making a mistaken assumption that its never a safety issue. If its temporary, shaddup about it. An aircraft is just another machine. Those that are honest will remain so, and those who arent never will be honest. They defer anyone with a deferrable problem rather than have the pilot provide the necessary data from the treating physician(s) before submitting the 8500-8. That would include most of the trainers (Cessna 120, 140, 150, 152, Piper Tomahawk, etc.) I am an AME and 4,000 hour pilot. Why do we have a federal bureaucracy policing such a low number of casualties? Even when telling the truth the FAA doesnt give the AME the power to decide. The reader should always consult his or her doctor before discontinuation of any medication. Ill continue to go by the book until such time as the rules change, or I wish to no longer fly. On the part of most pilots here its not lying. They are actually almost the same as for Third Class. If they find any issues, they will ask for more information. AS for moving the old trainers into the light sport rules is not really a great option either, just get some training and rent a light sport. But, it was not the fault of the FAA, it was mine for not verifying the doctors statement before submitting it. Didn't even think about it. Hmm cant spell worth a darn mostly dumb fingers will that get me rejected??? If you are currently taking any of these medications or other type of stimulant, expect your Aviation Medical Examiner (AME) to defer your application and ultimately for the FAA to deny your application until the medication is discontinued (and potentially for at least 90 days thereafter). The current system not only encourages dishonesty, it encourages pilots to avoid medical treatment and ignore symptoms. What the FAA is looking for are patterns of behavior that suggest pathological conditions that may lead to gross negligence or unsafe decisions regarding flying. Brian, what about a medication that was rx when you were eight and havent taken for 20yrs? It is a good thing that there are no sport airplanes to rent in your location. May just you please lengthen them a little from next time? However, I also think that the standards for commercial and airline pilots should be more stringent. There's also the possibility that the results of a blood or urine test will expose a condition you tried to hide. At worse, you may face a hefty fine or even criminal prosecution. The information contained herein is meant for informational purposes only. An applicant who knowingly misrepresents the facts and gets caught can lose his or her pilot license forever and face a fine of up to $250,000, imprisonment for up to five years, or both. I was told at a young age I could not fly with one eye, but latter in life I found out I could with a medical waver. Compared to all causes of death, these are infinitesimal numbers. SOO going by the statistic that YOU pointed outof very few incidents and the comments that have been made that alot of piolts tell little white lies to an AME to keep their medical . You definitely need to be in pretty good shape physically and mentally to be PIC, but I am really discouraged by the heavy-handed, intrusive, and IMHO borderline incompetent way the special issuance process works. Its about cooperating with your doc so you can keep doing what you love. I went to my own doctor who advised me it was nothing to worry about. If I have the big one in the seat here is what will happen: 1. Dental visits and visits to your AME need not be listed. There are two schools of thought on this issue: 'If you wanna fly, you gotta lie' versus 'honesty is always the best policy.' Today with the revolution in the medical diagnostic procedures, and early detection system and timely treatment most airline pilots will qualify and pass the medical exam if the questions were not leading ones. in detail and conduct a physical exam. That would translate into 45-50 deaths a year. 6 months and 2 weeks earlier I had one done for a Peace Corps application and sent that in, which would have been good for 2 years. Sure BUT would that condition really effect his flying? This is done by directly contacting you the pilot. Many of the requirements for special issuance for example are redundant and simply bureaucratic paper chases. Question:Do you think most pilots fib on applications for medical certificates? I wish somebody would have told me that last year when I filled out my first med in 11 years. FAA gets told one version of the story. Risk is a price of freedom. You want to make it more difficult? Its sad. Find one that will help you get through the maze, not simply hand your problem off to the FAA. dangerous individuals about whom one reads in the news at 10. There are are more decisions that have to be made while driving than flying. A medical exam is required for a Commercial Driver License and for working on a commercial boat carrying passengers. I asked him why I had to jump through all these hoops if I could get a waiver. Others accept what the agency is trying to do'protect everyone's best interests'and play by its less-than-perfect rules. If anyone cares to share their thoughts or any advice I would appreciate hearing from you. Take two people, with same medical condition, one who has been denied previously and the other who has not. to get it straightened out. Of course they do. 99.999999% of pilots can and should self-certify for 3rd class flying. Hell no!!! One change I would like in the current procedure for the special issuance is to have my AME rather than those in Oklohoma City decide if I am healthy enough to fly. '[T]here is probably some justification for that,' he acknowledged in a 1998 interview, noting that the FAA is 'extremely conservative' when it comes to medical matters. I can only speak from my personal experience as a pilot with a special issuance medical. Does A Surgical Mask Help Avoid COVID-19? Or have a child die and see a counselor of any sort. I know of several pilots who have useful vision in only one eye or have amblyopia that makes it impossible for them to pass the eye exam. have you ever once in your life had and on the other hand they are so vague. His career was essentially over with that arrest and he killed himself because of it. Our fact-checkers review each article to ensure that all the information presented is accurate, relevant and up-to-date. At a minimum, the liar can lose flight provileges for good. Before I was flying my previous HMO physician told me I was the perfect patient for the insurance company because I hadnt shown up for seven years. N Im a late student and cancer survivor and the FAA takes three months to get my student permit back and it expires in nine months. Of course, as others have posted here NO ONE can truthfully answer no to all the questions because of ever. Furthermore if one has the right against self-incrimination in court testimony, why should one be forced to self-incriminate before a Federal Agency that is extremely bureaucratic, slow to change, and out of touch with reality? Any deviation from general standards of health found would/should require a more intense examination/(s.). Simple you dont need to know and if you are scared to apply for you medical because your feared in getting caught. If the medical dates are incorrect, please contact CAMI at (405) 954-4821. If you cant pass the physical you need to find another way to fly. If you can afford to own or rent an airplane, you can afford to pay an AME. They, and AOPA, worked with me to get it corrected. If you do have heart disease, you would have to continue to see your Cardiologist as well as your AME to maintain your medical. Its a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. In the end, it all worked out, but I was frustrated about having to locate records from retired doctors across the country-all because a desk bureaucrat figured they knew more about my health than 3 doctors who had recently examined me with aviation in mind. The FAA Cannot possibly know all the doctors or hospitals you have ever been to unless you tell them. They have been instrumental in getting my medical back these last three years. I have all kinds of things happen to me and I can not possibly put them all down or even remember them. The list of silliness just goes on and on. And maintaining a Commercial Driver License with some illnesses is more difficult than maintaining and FAA Medical Certificate. Heres a guy who was never diagnosed with depression or showed any signs of it, but still completed the act so feared by these administrators. Keep in mind that the FAA receives something like 430,000 8500-8 each year. That cost me about six months of flying. I dont remember the exact incidence of pilot incapacitations that they quote at the AME seminars, but it is extremely low. The next hell will be finding out what conditions they place on that SI. Increasing the gross weight limit of the Sport Aircraft class is a really good idea. How is that fair? I wonder if your AME is really doing everything he can to be your advocate in this situation. Fess and get a special issuance if necessary. The standards are too strict and the FAA bases thier decisions (especially on medication) on generalizaitons instead of listening to the pilots and doctors. While the bills in Congress to eliminate the Class 3 Medical Certificate are progressing slowly, the FAA is taking steps to minimize the bureaucratic red tape involved with certain illnesses, such as prostate cancer. Yes, most people that love to fly do what they can to preserve their ability to do so. I can empathize with that Louis. AMCD will consider much more than the information you submitted in MedXPress and your AMEs exam findings. I have a perfect driving record,clean medical history,and also a clean criminal history. The medical only looks at your health at the point in time. The other crewmembers will consult the seniority list to see how they fare after my death. This is a bit off the subject of lying on the 8500-8, but it addresses another approach to not requiring a medical examination for certain types of flying. I am probably am the only one who will answer that I like to go for the medical because if forces me to go to the doctor. It revealed an abnormality. I then had to take an echo, which revealed I was even healthier than I thought! Im not a Senior AME, Ive only been one for a year. I used to go up about twice a week; now I havent flown since August. So, easing up on the medical requirements would be based on real world situations. Not all applicants with OSA are required to have that test. Auto correct makes illiterates of us all. My ex lied and never mentioned it. How is THAT not a red flag to someone??? And yet still I do not feel I can speak freely to them. A related question would be do people fly without a medical illegally? The FAA as a whole believes all people should fly if they desire. Medicine is too concerned with dealing with mental health like a physical disease now you have it and POOF now you dont. Did you tell the FAA you snore? Thus by forcing pilots to avoid medical treatment, in order to protect their medical certificate, the FAA actually promotes ill health and thus diminishes safety. How does the FAA find out what medications you are on? Once everything is done and documented properly,they should issue the medical quickly. Congress should forbid the FAA from requiring any medical for recreational flying. You are better off to work truthfully with your AME. The system is imperfect in many ways and should be fixed, I do not disagree with that. Skye, you may be a little over the top with your attitude but not by all that much. I think the medical is about to date as traveling by the hose & buggy. One correction that I expect an AME to know if you have a condition that you KNOW will result in a medical denial, youre not qualified to fly sport. I do recommend that you do ask your AME any questions regarding your medications and or your medical history and assist in the gathering of medical records relating to what condition you may have and also the same for your arrest/and or correctional history to explain why on the medical form in the explanations page. You said they can search, where do they find that information? The cost of the medical exam will vary by location and examiner as well as the type of exam given. And two complete submittals of blood tests. Both have risks. Thank you for the post. Holy hell! Not much of a medical exam, if you ask me. I flew for 16 years in the Air Force with a known heart murmur that I know would preclude me form a civilian 1st class. The flight surgeon is not my friend. then are able to re-apply. I know a guy from the US (cant tell his name) that told me that he has lied at least one time, he was overweight and had high blood pressure, he was medicated but he never told that in his annual. At least my livelihood doesnt depend on it. Trying to fix an accidental lie on my medical. You just hit a key to the problem. Anymore stringent than the First Class Medical is now would end up grounding many older pilots. My name is not Gustavo either. I do think that the First and Second class medical criteria should be more stringent. If I tell the AME about this will I not get my cert that day? Jack, petition the FAA to quit demanding the maintenance of wakefulness test. For airmen, this, like so many other aspects of aviation, is a judgment call'but one that also gets tangled up in personal ethics. That cost me about six months of flying. TO LOW TO BAIL SO HAD TO TO FLY IT DOWN . Telling the truth in MedXPress is clearly the right thing to do, but that is not what this article is about. I know there are very experienced Senior AMEs out there who may have more influence with a phone call to Oklahoma City. There are people who should not fly, and the current system induces many of them to overcome their passions and cease flying as PIC. They may only get 3rd class, but they are flying with strict guidelines on preflight accu check, inflight accu check, etc. Also, if I lose my medical, Id save a ton of money on flying and could retire a good 10-15 years earlier! I can get it back, but I have to go through a fairly extensive bureaucratic morass to recover it, then jump through extra hoops over the years to keep it. When I joined the military, it popped up at MEPs and I had to complete a waiver but I was allowed to go to boot camp. The SIC will pull the body out of HIS brand new seat. Would be drowsy at odd times. A highly experienced AME, also a 747/DC-10 Captain for a major airline, once told me that crewmembers lose consciousness in the seat about half a dozen times every year. With a small investment of time and energy, in the beginning, it is possible to keep flying with most medical conditions as long as they are well controlled. How long is a 2nd class medical good for over 40? The regulations are not arbitrary. Since I asked to have myself tested for apnea, and found it was a problem, and now use a Constant Positive Air Pressure (CPAP) machine, FAA dogs me annually. by Paul Engstrom, Aviation Writer and IFA Member. Required fields are marked *. What to do? He petitioned the FAA to remove his special issuance for that disorder and supplied a letter from his treating physician, and the special issuance requirement went away. If they have any concerns about your eligibility to hold a medical certificate, AMEs can also deny your application or defer your certification to the FAA for further review. Make the FAA do a special issue for every single pilot in the country. By the way a friend of mine died 2 hours after acquiring his 2nd class medical. Any help would be greatly appreciated thank you. Does anyone know the statistics of how often a dead pilot at a crash is found to have prescribed medications for a condition that has not been reported on the 8500-8? Now a question: Should 80+ year old pilots with type II diabetes, hypertension, a coronary artery stent or two, on 3-4 medications be allowed to fly a 6000# gross weight airplane with 5 passengers up to 14,000 feet, VFR or IFR without having had a medical exam by an AME? I for one, not being a medical doctor, place my trust in my AME and my PCP. With the right preparation, you can navigate the process efficiently. In-case if you ever get into an accident the FAA/NTSB will look through all your medical history and do a thorough check on that pilot meaning they want to look at every doctor visit and all medications you have been on. Global misunderstands that Procedure codes, diagnosis codes and pharmacy codes were denied protections under to ACA of 2010. This doesnt happen very often because Oklahoma City deals with up to 700,000 to one million people a year but if one does get caught then one could face some legal trouble in court. I know of several. People, in general, are in better health than they were 20-30 years ago, largely by not smoking, watching their weight, eating less fatty foods, etc. Google "Operation Safe Pilot." In a blatant violation of the privacy act of 1974 as amended, the FAA, DOT Inspector General, and SSA Inspector General, conducted an illegal database match looking for common personally identifying information (names and/or social security numbers) in the FAA medical certificate database and the SSA Title 2 and Title 16 disability databases of 45,000 Northern . If thats not a bigger threat to safety, I dont know what is. They have little to do but think up new restrictions, all under the banner of safety. That is an entirely different responsibility that warrants a real physical exam. Should I mention this to my AME? I say that based on the relative numbers discussed above. Every single pilot lied on their medical form. The FAA has created an atmosphere that not only encourages problems to go unchecked and unreported, but actually makes some of those problems worse by discouraging pilots from addressing them, instead allowing them to fester. And, actually, the FAA is making Special Issuance less of a problem for certain diseases. What are the chances you will get caught? All medical certificates are valid for 60 months, unless youre 40 or older the day you get it (then its 24 months). This is very true if you were to tell them everything that has happened to you in the past medical histories etc. I am very curious. After numerous attempts I decided to contact the FAA of the situation so he would not get away with deceiving the AME again. Period. NO. He then went on to work for the leading aviation magazines, including as editor of both AOPA Pilot and Flying. PER your admission the need for a medical is a mute issue I drive there for I fly. Id probably be in better shape if I *wasnt* a pilot since Id feel free to take advantage of those things, whereas now theyre just traps, ways to lose the ability to fly. We have an entrenched bureaucracy that refuses to relinquish power and money. My new AME, (old one finally retired,) is a pilot, as is his wife, the office manager and head nurse. They generally do not spend a significant amount of time reviewing each one. But is the whole medical certificate process flawed? If it is not recurrent, you should be able to demonstrate with help from your private treating physician that the problem no longer exists. So Rex you never spun around and got dizzy as a child? Please don't sabotage your own union's efforts on your behalf. Whether or not your AME issues your medical certificate, the FAAs Aeromedical Certification Division (AMCD) will review your application. The AME Guide explains that the question pertains to unexplained unconsciousness. Youd think somebody in the FAA would be ashamed of being this dumb and show a little initiative and courage to fix such obvious issues instead of burying their tiny little heads in the sand. But the standards are not different. G E King, It is probably one of the most important benefits they offer their members. While I share our concern about pilots going unconscious in flight, I have as much concern about FAA going unconscious while on the job. should not fly. If you have determined that you are not healthy enough to fly sport, then you have done exactly what the Sport program is intended to do; leave the decision to the pilot. Coronary heart disease that has been treated or, if untreated, that has been symptomatic or clinically significant, Disturbance of consciousness without satisfactory explanation of the cause, A personality disorder that is severe enough to have repeatedly manifested itself by overt acts, Transient loss of control of nervous system function(s) without a satisfactory explanation of the cause. Further more, if an airman lies and is in a serious accident with injuries or fatalities, his entire medical history will be examined and subsequent legal action may not be beneficial to his or her heirs. should also be aware that the FAA now routinely cross-references your VA disability rating when determining your eligibility for a medical certificate. The message the FAA should be sending to pilots in my opinion is Manage your health. Why? No problem there both were on the approved list (most are). You had better not try to get on medication to calm you down and thus make you a safer pilot because you will no longer be able to fly. Ive seen pilots successfully conquer exams and die days later (in flight). FAA Current Detailed Clinical Progress Notes. It has caused unnecessary pain and inhibits its mission to promote aviation. Just curious, as I am considering it and wondering about others experiences. Most get grounded for a year? I lost my younger years flying and now the hoopes I have to jump through is unbeleveable.I really love flying but the government can take the privelage away its not right. I've known guys who've cheated the system but have never heard of anyone in or close to my circle of pilot frinds who've had any aeromedical violation investigations. At 60 years of age you do not want to become an airline pilot you just want to be able to go up fly around and come back again. Lying on the medical is usually unnecessary in order to keep flying, and has such potentially dire consequences for ones life, family, and finances that its not worth the risk. Having spent over 10k learning to fly I was advised at my medical I had LBBB. He passed his 3rd class every time. I lost my career as an airline pilot (major airline) and my life spiraled out of control. Until the rules change, abide by them, and make sure you self monitor. If one does lie this is an example of what could happen facing fines of up to $250,000,and possibly up to 5 years of federal imprisonment,and certificate revocation. As one previous poster mentioned, why not let the AME make more of the calls, especially for class 3? Reply. Well, I believe we should have to have a medical to operate a car, a motorcycle, a truck, a bus, a train or any type of machine that is exposed to or involved in transportation. Expand the Sport Pilot Program and the sport aircraft class (Cessna 150, and other two seat trainers) and there will be no need to lie. Most women get frequent headaches-about once a month, and heaven forbid but we do go to the doctor and get X-rays and tests once or twice a year. Some pilots are terrified of the FAA's power to revoke their flying privileges and, accordingly, bend or ignore the rules. I was diagnosed with PTSD from my service in the infantry Vietnam in 1968/1969 and have received counseling for it. I took medication for years, before I decided I didn't like and chose to stop taking meds (with my parents). With a second class medical, itll be 12 calendar months, and if you start with the third class medical, itll be for 24 calendar months. If they have any concerns about your eligibility to hold a medical certificate, AMEs can also deny your application or defer your certification to the FAA for further review. Im applying for a job where they train you to be a helicopter pilot. Ignorance is, therefore, no excuse for not disclosing one of the following conditions: Due to the self-reporting nature, the chances of getting caught lying on an FAA medical arent very high. Most those fellas at the FAA seem pretty smart, but they must be pretty spineless too. I was then a County Police Officer for 21 years. It is a scam, a make-work project for administrators, and btw, doctors who make a practice of the bulk of business, which is 3rd class. We display medical information based on FAAs Civil Aerospace Medical Institute (CAMI) medical records. The AME can comment on the problem stating that it no longer exists and you are not on medication in the comments section on the 8500-8 and submit it along with the note from your counsellor to the FAA and go ahead and issue your Medical Certificate. 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They, and also a clean criminal history worse, you can afford to own or an! Everyone 's best interests'and play by its less-than-perfect rules cured now ; they should issue the medical looks., all under the banner of safety we worry about non-commercial pilots to safety, which be! Blood or urine test will expose a condition you tried to hide and FAA certificate... That condition really effect his flying ) 954-4821 and documented properly, they will ask more.